Quote from deggis :

How this link works just like this? Without the "please wait 60 seconds" page?

It's called "TrafficShare Download" and you can use it if sign up. I got 10 GB worth of TrafficShare bandwidth when I signed up for 1 month, after that they sell it for about 18ct/GB.

Here's a full lap onboard from Alonso. Not a great lap but after that the director kept jumping around without showing a full lap.

http://rapidshare.com/files/14 ... 8_singapore_alonso_fp.mpg

The track looks quite exiting actually, loads better than Valencia.

FIA have clarified the chicane cutting rules: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70526

Quote from Mark Webber :

"But generally, it is pretty clear for people to probably not attack immediately again, which wasn't mega, mega clear in the past."

So there we have it. It's been clarified which means it was not clearly defined before which means they can't give a penaltly for it. Lewis will get his win back on September 22. If there are sane people judging that is.

I know I'm late to the party but I just had my first look at rafa and I'm quite impressed! Very clean and easy to use. In case you are still looking for feedback here are my suggestions how it could be made a lot more useful.


First, as yapper mentions above, a time difference graph is very useful to find out where time is being gained/lost. To save space I would put this in the same window as speed as that's the one that's going to be open all the time.

Also important would be IMO that when I zoom, all graphs are zoomed at the same time, so that the cursor line is still in sync with the displayed data. For example if I zoom in to turn 1 to analyze the braking I want to see steering and throttle all at the same scale and the same position.

And I think there needs to be a way to move the cursor position using the keyboard so that I can go through a lap step by step. For example one real life data analysis tool I've worked with uses the arrow keys to move the cursor and ctrl+arrows to move the currently visible range (when you are zoomed).

Not really important but nice would be if a live steering wheel could be added to the overview screen and whether it could be moved to the right hand pane as to not take away room for a real graph.

And why do keep saying names are not needed? If I didn't feel I needed them I wouldn't mention them would I?

And no, contacts on straights are usually caused by one driver alone.

I may give the time trials idea a try, although having to do so only reinforces my opinion of the SR.

Last edited by J.B., Thu 11 Sep 2008, 23:09.

Quote from Jertje :

I didn't want to respond to your post originally, as I don't want to come over as the defensive iRacing-crusader on the LS forums when you (re)raise some valid arguments, but If the flag drops after you have crossed the line, the lap definitely counts! I myself am a master at driving like a muppet until I see a chequered flag, and have driven plenty of valid qualify-times in the very last lap of the session, as people were disconnecting.

All your other points are based on opinions really; I don't mind the SR system, and will race everybody and anything, anywhere, even though I am almost at 4.99 rating D level and rising. Just out of curiosity, why do you want a hardcore reset-option that resets your lap counter, but you do mind the 'harsh' SR system?

The sim definitely has some major missing elements, such as the mentioned split times, replay saving, flags, pitstops and the missing European tracks, but all other mentioned items are just things that are not really needed to make a great sim - who really cares about having a track map or names over cars? At some point you just know the track, and also the people you're racing with based on their paint scheme.

Of course my views are based on opinions, isn't that the point?

You're right that some points are very minor as it's just an unordered list with the intention of summing up my iRacing experience. I didn't want to make an ultra long post that nobody would read but let's discuss the points you're interested in.

Quali Flag: maybe there was another reason why my laps didn't count. Do SR penalties for using too much curb cause this?

Car reset and SR: car reset just destroys any feeling of immersion and the fact that the laps don't get reset means there is no reason at all to drive into the pits yourself. Although I'm not sure, do you even get repaired if drive into the pits without reset? I don't really know what connection you make between what I said about resets and what I said about SR. For me the SR is just too difficult. The highest I ever had was 3.0 rookie but it dropped down to 2.3 in between and is now back to 2.5. In 2 of my last 4 races I was tapped from the side on the straight right after the start (ruining my car) and in the other 2 people spun in front of me before the first corner. Add in that I get penalties for using curbs about once a lap and it's not surprising I'm having problems with SR. The highest SR gain I ever got, after an almost perfect race, was +0.1. That means I would need about 15 hours of uninterrupted, perfect racing before I'm even allowed to race the skip barber that I paid 15$ for...

Track map and names over cars: the way I drive in LFS is shift-F mode all the time, with shift-F and some other HUD controls mapped to my wheel. When I need some specific information I shift-F, have a look, and turn it off again. Sort of like a pit board. In iRacing I find it difficult to get the information I need. If I don't even see the names of the drivers I might as well be racing against AI. In real racing you know your 20 odd opponents and what they look like before you even get to the track. Again, it's just some info I switch on for a moment when I need the info so I fail to see how that detracts from the pureness of the sim. Track map is the same thing. It just helps you see what's going on in the race, information that you would get via radio/pitboard in real racing. Right now in iRacing you need to navigate through F1/F3 menus to get any useful race information.

All that said, the most important part of any sim is of course the physics. What's a shame here is that after being thrilled during my first few outings, the more I drive now the less I like it. The feel is great but once you try to really get on the limit and reduce lap times I feel that the physics encourage you to use unrealistic driving styles such as always staying on the throttle a little bit, using loads of steering lock to balance and slow down the car and yanking the car into oversteer by banging down the gears.

And there is definitely an issue with the way the game responds to my brake pedal. I spent some time looking at the bar graphs during braking and the brake pedal often jumps to full depression when I'm only at about half way travel. I checked in the driver and in LFS and it's not a problem with my pedal.

Bottom line is that any sim is only as good as its tyre model and I'm not sure that statistic based models are ever going to be good enough. And before you flame me, no LFS physics aren't perfect either not they're not far behind and better in some areas.

Grats and nice driving. The track looks a bit nuts in an F3, almost like driving on a country road.

What class are you doing next year?

Been trying it a bit, not too happy with it, certainly not for that kind of money.


Quick list of points:

-Tracks are fantastic, look great, mega accurate, fun to drive, LFS' main drawback.

-Physics feel very nice in the Solstice, but still has the typical fundamental GPL problems (use steering-induced understeer to go fast, use lot's of throttle under braking to improve balance).

-Great force feedback.

-Skip barber feels horrible, counter the turn-in oversteer by mashing the throttle, wtf?

-No brake force adjustments, wheels lockup all the time.

-Penalties for using the curbs are outright infuriating, last corner of Laguna anyone?

-Security rating is way too hard to improve, makes you scared of racing, maybe it was easier when there were less drivers in the beta.

-Extremely annoying security rating messages that come up in your face and can't be disabled

-Damage is ridiculous, get tapped on the rear, steering is bent, handling gone.

-Ugly, badly positioned HUD elements that can't be configured (needs LFS shift-f mode)

-No flags!

-Lack of information (I want the LFS track map).

-No names over cars to identify drivers.

-Reset allowed, teleport to pits doesn't even reset your lap counter, wtf?

-FPS counter keeps coming back on after I switch it off.

-Inconsistent framerate (40-110 fps) even at lowest settings, including some severe stutters.

-No replay saving.

-No data recording/analysis.

-Audio volume way to low, unadjustable, need to crank up my speakers until they hiss.

-In Quali a lap started shortly before the chequered doesn't count, wtf?

-Lack of European cars and tracks, stuff like Spa, Brands, GP2, DTM, F3 aren't on any list of future projects.

-Adds a service to Windows startup.

-Forced DirectX install.

-No split timing.


Uh, that's a longer list of issues that I thought it was going to be. Basically I think I would want either a mature version that doesn't feel like a beta and has tyre physics improvements or a light version that is a lot cheaper and limits me to driving offline, for the sake of the excellent tracks.

Last edited by J.B., Wed 10 Sep 2008, 20:30.

If there had been an armco instead of runoff I think Kimi would have left more room or both cars would be out.

Quote from amp88 :

There's been a lot of talk about the overtaking incident but a lot less about Hamilton's weaving after the incident. David Hobbs on the SPEED coverage mentioned this at the time. If you watch it he definitely made 3 moves and possibly 4 on the straight. Raikkonen initially followed him for the first couple so he was trying to slipstream back past. Even if Hamilton didn't deserve the penalty for the chicane incident, should he have got it for weaving?

True, the weaving was a bit dodgy but not penalty worthy as he wasn't blocking Kimi by doing it. In fact I believe it may have been an angry reaction to Kimi ramming his front wing into Lewis' rear tyre in La Source, which was by far the most dangerous and unsporting move of the day.

And samjh thanks for the new perspective and picture analysis. I have to concede that AdamW was right to be very careful with respect to camera angles. But even if he is a bit less ahead than I though, the fact that he is ahead under braking at all still means that the idea that he should go through the chicane behind Kimi is absurd. It's either side by side, crash or one car leaves the track.

The real issue that nobody is talking about though is who are these steward guys anyway? They certainly don't have any credentials that should allow them to make sporting decisions like this one. How long is F1 going to continue letting amateurs make important decisions, having rules that are so poorly defined that consistent penalties are impossible, having guys in their eighties in the most powerful positions, having a leading representative who is known to enjoy twisted sado sex? F1 is stuck in the past and needs to catch up with modern times. I'm not watching until they do.

Quote from samjh :

Massa, naturally, thinks otherwise:
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news ... ove-was-optimistic-massa/

But who cares about Massa's opinion. He's the guy who said in Valencia that Sutil had no right to do 80 km/h in the fast lane of the pit lane because he was a backmarker.

Last edited by J.B., Tue 9 Sep 2008, 08:16.

Quote from AdamW :

It doesn't show anything because it's an angled shot with no useful reference point. Remember watching rowing at the Olympics?

Right, but the cars are much too close to each other for such an effect to be relevant. I didn't see rowing but I know they don't race right next to each other.

Quote from diablo21 :

That pic shows nothing..

It shows just how far ahead Lewis was under braking. It shows how ridiculous the idea is that he should have tucked in behind Kimi at the apex.

Quote from Mustafur :

Actually there was. If you see the replay Lewis could of stayed on the track and not hit either if he had of slowed right down at the apex.

At the apex of the right hander? Are you kidding? He was trying to overtake and had much more momentum and braked much later. Are you saying he wasn't even supposed to try to overtake? When you're this far in front at the entry I don't see how or why you could possibly slow down enough to tuck in behind the other guy at the apex:

Quote from Shotglass :

there was no contact whatsoever in the chicane... stop making things up

There wasn't, but only because Lewis took evasive action. There's no way they could both have stayed on the track without contact, I'm not sure what you're seeing in your screenshots.

May well have been the last F1 race I ever watch.

Wow, what a race! Great stuff by Hamilton, even though he was quite lucky considering how often he left the track.

Here's a Premiere stream of the battle between Lewis and Kimi, lot's of onboard: Click

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

We DO have skilled drivers, just they have no money. So simple. We had one to be honest, Zsolt Baumgartner, he was at Minardi a few years ago. He had to stop racing there due to the lack of money. That's Hungary... Britain is the home of motorsports. The money is over there. NOW... CASE CLOSED

Err, no. Baumgartner didn't drop out of F1 because of lack of money, he got into F1 because of his wealthy dad.

They only showed the second half of the pole lap on the onboard channel but it was a beautiful piece of driving so here you go: click

Last edited by J.B., Sat 6 Sep 2008, 16:20.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Yeah, and this, of course!

This is teh bestest.

I; m out of lfs until the next patch. I'm so frustrated i have use total weird settings. i' ve had enough of it.

Quote from Biohazard :

i did not intend to appear disrespectful. i just wondered what makes this plane crash different compared to all the others that obviously do not deserve a thread and thus respect for the victims.

I think the answer is that plane crashes with massive loss of human life aren't as common as you seem to think.

See the list here.

In fact Madrid is the worst plane crash on European soil since 1988. That's worthy of a thread I'd say.

But I understand your curiosity and don't think any of the name calling was justified. Looking at the list though, the real question is how can the rest of the world be content with having such an appalling safety record compared to Europe? All you have to do really is follow maintenance rules and let the pilots do their jo by the book.

Quote from BurnOut69 :

Same technique, just walk in

Not in F1 you don't. Maybe 20 years ago.

In one one word, COOL!!!!! Would love to drive this new car Great boost for lfs too since a lot of people love this car for its looks(and i assume it drives great as most new cars do)

Quote from Woz :

So you PERSONALLY drove these cars did you so you knew what you did with the clutch etc and then took the tyre temps after the run. How do you have ANY idea about what you just spoke about unless you had access to all the data on the cars you probably looked at only?

99% of people that cook the clutch in LFS do so because they are either too lead footed or DO NOT put the clutch in when then spin. IRL if you spin you put the clutch in to protect it. How often do you do that in LFS?

No LFS is not perfect BUT most of the problems reported are still between keyboard and chair in that people DO NOT drive as they would IRL. Too many people push too hard and exploit LFS and its unlimited setups for extra speed instead of just driving the car then wonder why things go wrong

Well did any of you ever drive an F1 car, did the engineers who built it? Who designed the tyres?? I think not. Apperently it is not required to drive one. But listen carefully to what the drivers tell and what you see etc. does seem to give a very good idea what is going on and don t jump conclusions. Here we do assume things: "tyres must be really as bad and troublesome, irl F1 drivers are lying about tyres, why don' t they complain more about overheating? We have it in lfs! So they must have also this problems, It can' t be true tyres irl are that good.."


Using r4 tyres? nobody uses very hard compounds irl nor should we in lfs.

@tristancliffe:
" F1 cars can take similar bumps in LFS to those in Rotterdam"
Well if i tell a fbm should be able to take at low speeds a mild bottom out, i was told to be crazy and out of my mind. Did the youtube movies of flying formula cars help to get that right?

"0-100 runs in LFS won't kill tyres or clutchs. In fact, in this regard LFS tyres heat up too slowly." True, on some cars the clutch is too strong and on some too weak.

"We don't have the same compounds as real life F1, so perhaps consider using the next compound up? As we are unlikely to see specif..."
True, but it can' t be that hard to change some things to get the tempatures bit down in lfs. It is very clear irl f1 drivers don't have any overheating problems and such problems are very rare in most racing classes. Usually its lower raceing classes sometimes a drivers is telling they had to be carefull not to wear tyres out too fast(not too sliding, not too much pusing). It is rare i hear a driver complain about overheating tyres, it does happen but it is rare and in some classes overheating is more common then others.

However something should be made a lot weaker then it is now in lfs, tyres should wear out much quicker. Espacially the soft compounds.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Tue 19 Aug 2008, 07:26.

Today in Rotterdam there were/are nice shows of race-cars including an F1 car(renault).

What is most noticable:
Clutches are not that weak in real life
The F1 car can take really high bumps at high speed
Tyres do not severly overheat as fast from severel burn-outs, powerturns etc. They did wear out quick, but the severe overheating and complete loss of grip as what happens in lfs, dit not happen irl.

Same for gtr-like racing cars, doing several 0-100km/h-0 runs for show. Did they kill their clutch and/or tyres? NO!

Last week there was a news article about F1-tyres. Drivers were complaining about it was impossible to get soft-tyres to optimal tempature and were begging bridgestone to give them the super-soft compounds. In lfs, tyres on bf1 are phrone to catching fire just by looking at them.. what a difference with real world..

So now i am even more convinced lfs is very wrong about how weak tyres and clutches are.
I am still hoping it will be fixed soon!